I would be interested to know your belief in The Rapture? I'll save my answer until I read you reply.
Thank you
Let me know please what the time period of rapture may be
The Rapture
Messiah 2030 ~ Film Discussion Forum
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The rapture/harpazo or catching away is a clearly illustrated event that is going to occur. The only debate is the timing of the event.
I, like many, was brought up on the pre-trib idea. After years of reading scripture and chewing on what it says (not what I want it to say) I'm not sure if the pre-trib is accurate. Many people develop preconceived beliefs or ideas that were typically taught to them by people they deem more knowledgeable than themselves. They are mentally lazy and look for others to do the work and tell them what scripture means, rather than figure it out themselves, because that would take work and mental effort. They want the easy way.
Then they look for scripture to support their belief or what they've been told, rather than allow scripture to create the belief. They often discard scripture that contradicts their dogmatic views or understandings of what they have been taught. Making doctrines of men doctrines of God. Times haven't changed and people haven't changed. We, as people, have been doing this forever.
The only scripture I can find that alludes to the idea of a pre-trib event is Rev. 3:10. This however is only being spoken to the church of Philadelphia ONLY. I am familiar with the illustration of the 7 churches representing "eras" of the church over the last 2000 years although no can point out when these supposed eras began and ended. Laodicea being the current church era. There is a plausible argument for this illustration. As to whether it is accurate is debatable. The messages to the churches are more important than trying to overlay some contrived "hidden message" timeline over the seven churches. All the same, it's an interesting mental exercise and possibility so I don't discount it outright.
Who, and if the timeline idea is correct, when is/was the church of Philadelphia? When did it start and end to give way to the Laodicean church? These are questions I haven't found answers to.
There are also scriptures that say "we are not appointed to wrath". The wrath of God and the tribulation are not the same thing as many seem to think it is. The tribulation is the period of the anti-christ and satan running amok on the earth. And is it 7 years or 3.5 years? Even that is scripturally debatable. The wrath of God and the wrath of the lamb are Devine judgements. and are not the tribulation. The wrath of God seems to be the vial judgements. The seals and trumpets are more inline with the tribulation period.
I've studied end time prophecies for 40 years and listened everyone and their dog give their explanations. I've heard it all. The truth is because of the metaphorical and allegorical nature of the passages in the book of the Revelation we can't say with 100% certainty what these things mean. It's best guess in much of it. Many times prophecy cannot be understood until after it happens.
We can look back at the prophecies of the first coming and Jesus and say, "SEE!". But that proves my point, we are looking BACK AFTER it occurred. The people of the time, especially the religious types, couldn't see it. The same is going to happen in the future regarding the unfolding of end time events.
Be aware of what's going on today, but don't interpret scripture or your understanding of scripture using modern headlines and say, "See, this is it!" Many in the past have done the same and have been wrong. It's tempting to do. Be mindful of it.
For the record, the 2030 date, based on my understanding of everything you pointed out in this video, is what I've been looking at since the 1990's. I was bouncing back and fourth between 2030 and 2033, but was more on the 2030 side of things. You pointed out several allusions I didn't consider. The menorah prophecy was interesting.
Any honest bible reader will eventually come to the 7 day/7 thousand year timeline understanding. I'm surprised how many don't understand this still. Very good job on this video. I found it more edifying as opposed to revelatory. That's just me though. I hope it opens a lot of eyes.
So is there a pre-trib rapture? I'm not sure anymore. Or is it pre-wrath? Time will tell. WE DON'T KNOW the day or the hour. That said, it says we will know the season.
I find the alignment of current events and this 6000 year timeline quite alarming. I've never seen so many things lining up like we do today. As I've studied history, I can't go back in history and see what we are seeing happening today on such a grand scale affecting the entire world like we do today.
I know this, according to Titus 2:11-13 and 1Thess 4:16-18, we are waiting for the appearing of Jesus in the sky. The bible doesn't say this happens twice. It happens once. According to Matthew this is at the END of the time of tribulation "after those days".
Mat 24:29 Immediately "after the tribulation" of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a "great sound of a trumpet", and they shall "gather together his elect" from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
I'm starting to lean more towards a pre-wrath timing (whenever that begins). It seems a rapture is more likely happening at the second coming.
The pre-trib is a very seductive proposition. Thinking we will not suffer for the sake of Christ, but scripture says otherwise. I think like at the beginning of the church age where there was much persecution, the end of the church age will be similar.
It's also possibly very deceptive because so many dogmatically think the tribulation can't start until AFTER the rapture. In order to believe this, you have to engage in a level of mental gymnastics with scripture to come to that conclusion, which I have watched many popular "bible teachers" do. Especially with 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 saying the "falling away" (apostisa - defecting from the faith) and turning that into the "catching away" which is not a proper understanding of that scripture.
So if the tribulation begins and we are still here many won't recognize it or accept it as being the tribulation because they will be saying "this can't be it, the rapture hasn't happened yet." Causing a form of scriptural cognitive dissonance.
I'm open to the idea of a pre-trib rapture. Who wouldn't be. I don't want to endure the suffering outlined in scripture just as much as the next guy. It's normal to not want to suffer. But I'm not holding on to it with all that I have. I am mentally prepared to endure if I have to. Just because it's become popular over the last 100 years and has the appeal of "I won't have to endure until the end", doesn't mean it's the correct interpretation.
I find that attitude very much in alignment with the lukewarm, easy life mentality Jesus rebukes the Laodiceans for exhibiting. Interesting point to ponder. But after his rebuke he tells them, "To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame," We are told to overcome and not fall into lukewarmness or get caught up in the idea of we are rich and have need of nothing. This is very much reflected in the mentality of today's idolatry of wealth, riches, and luxury. It has spread like a mental and spiritual cancer throughout much of the church, especially in America and other western nations.
I think to be wise, we have to be open to the possibility we may be here through the tribulation and learn to recognize it when it starts. If the pre-trib is the way it goes down, GREAT! Nothing to worry about. But I would advise to not be dogmatic and unwavering in that interpretation of the the timing of the event.
The pre-trib rapture has become a type of dogma. Dogma's can hinder our understanding. There was much dogma in the days of Jesus in which he rebuked and corrected the people and leaders for their erroneous interpretations. We would be wise and should also be flexible in our understanding of the "timing" of these events.
If the tribulation starts and there hasn't been a rapture there will be millions caught off guard and unprepared and refusing to believe "they were wrong." Just like in the days of Jesus, they couldn't admit they were wrong. Sin #1 PRIDE.
Hi - Thanks for your answer. My reply is much simpler. The rapture theory was taught beginning around 1830 in England. The word Rapture is not found in the Bible. IThes 4 tells of the 1st resurrection when Christ returns & the saints dead & living are given eternal life. The Rapture theory has no legs. My real interest is what the producers of Messiah 2030 think.
"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." So when Christ comes for His bride he's taking us immediately back down to earth? Hmm.
"For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day." Does that sound like His 2nd coming when "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."? Hmm.
"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Does that sound like Christ letting His beloved bride go through the antichrist's hands? Hmm.
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Does that sound like Christ's bride having to survive the tribulation? Hmm.
The words Trinity and Christianity aren't in the Bible. Does it follow that the concepts also are missing?
Hmm.
There's no need to use those legs to stand on because they're flying through the clouds home to haeaven!
Fiona Sommerhalder
Art Martin
Huda Almansour
I also believe the 7 churches in Revelation ch 1-3 are the various church ages within the last 2000 years. Walther Veith has a good video describing the various aspects of the ages on youtube. search "The True Meaning of the 7 Churches Explained"
Hi Michael, I appreciate your point of view as a schooled/ self taught theologian. I am of that same mind set. I was brought up in a church experience that a pre Trib Rapture was taught. I have spent 25 + years studying this subject along with end times prophesy. I got hooked by seeing events that happened on the day of my birth to be a mirror image of Matthew 24:29. And after much study and prayerful guidance ,I believe that day was that day. Let me explain before you quite reading. The day was September 24th 1950 and is called Black Sunday. You can google to discover the happenings of that day. A quick summary is in the morning of the 24th there was a sizable meteor shower as reported in the newspaper of the 25th then starting at 12noon or 6th hour the sky across the east coast of US and Canada turned like night continuing to the 9th hour and beyond in some areas. The verse with “ Immediately after the Tribulation of that time” I take this part as not referring to the tribulation period , the reason is it’s differs language than ever used revering to this time of wrath. I was studying the length of biblical Generations and the first humans were under a day is like a 1000 years unto the Lord and a1000 years a day. When Christ spoke of this He knew He would be in Heaven and be all God when this would happen. To God the time from World War 2 and Sept 24th 1950 would have been 8 minutes. Then the time from 1950 till 2023 about 2 hours. So in Gods eyes Sept 24th was Immediately after the tribulation of WW2 and right now is shortly after.
My studies show this to be the start of the Generation that in 24:34 that being the case that day would have been the beginning of the end of the world as we know it. And Heavenly bodies would have been shaken.
I have a written study that shows proof this , you should read . I show the true meaning of the parable of the fig tree that shows 1950 the start year. I show 16 total lunar eclipses that identify the seasons of the generation. Psalms 104:19 God appointed the moon for seasons. In 1950 the 24th was Black Sunday the 25th there was a total lunar eclipse then on 9/26 the first day of festival of Tabernacles . These dates 9/24,25,26 match Daniels prophesy of the Abomination of Desolation. The prophesy also Includes 9/:27 verse which was fulfilled in a total lunar eclipse in 2015. My study shows all this better.
Going back to the pre trib rapture. I believe the gospel of Paul spells out a pre trib case and is different from the other disciples Gospel which is more for the Jews. Revelation is layed out chronologicaly as things will happen. The 7 letters being periods of time in the church age, now being in the 7th letter. Then John gets taken to the third heaven( I believe symbolic of the Rapture. The church is then not mentioned . It may be symbolized but in Heaven, then the trib starts till Christs return were He is triumphant and sets up His government and rules 1000 years. I am promised a place with Him for eternity. My email is tomnpat777@ gmail.com email me and I’ll send you that proof. Just giving you another point of view. I enjoyed reading yours. Thanks again Michael.
Fiona Sommerhalder
I am not sure if this might be helpful or not but I started to collect all Bible passages that are used in teachings about the rapture (pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath and post-trib) and compared them in context of the theory.
Unfortunately my document ist in German since I am from Germany but it is quite easy to have it translated to any other language with Google translator:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1afUkm3E7W89B-X_TzEt51oIdeuXkoTfuo-ZLZiSE76M/edit?usp=sharing
It is an interactive document and everyone is allowed to ask questions and to add commentaries to it.
charles feltham
Messiah2030
John 14:1-3, Luke 21:34-36, Rev 3:10,
2 Thes 2:1-12, Luke 17:22-24
I believe that the author of this video would agree with you on a post trib rapture. But these scriptures and many more would indicate the contrary. The rapture is an event that is imminent, and once it's post trib you know exactly when it will take place thus no Imminency. That cannot be.
Hi Adam :),
If you read my post this is what I was mentioning in terms of taking a pre-established belief and looking at scripture through the lens of that belief to support the belief, rather than carefully reading scripture to create belief.
Those scriptures you cited do not allude to a pretribulation timing, except Rev 3:10 (which I addressed above).
John 14:1-3 only alludes to the fact Jesus will come and gather us to a place he has prepared for us. He doesn't say when in those verses.
2 Thes 2:1-12 I addressed above. No where in those verses does it say we are going to be gone BEFORE the appearing of the son of perdition, that man of sin. The "falling away" is not the rapture. It's an apostasy movement that takes place. Many fall away from the faith. That's what it is talking about. We've been watching that happen since the 1960's and accelerate in the last 10.
"for that day (What day? The Day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
So the second coming can't happen until this guy shows up on the scene, whoever he is.
What is the Day of the Lord? It's the second coming of Jesus and a period of the Wrath of God. This is when He gathers us out of here. Before the wrath is poured out.
When does this happen? See Matthew 24:29-30; "immediately AFTER those days of tribulation....then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven"
Luke 21:34-36 is interesting in what it says in terms of "pray that you be counted worthy to escape all these things."
But, if you look at the preceding verses 25-28 Jesus is talking about his second coming. Then if you look at verse 34 it says:
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day THAT DAY come upon you unawares.
What is THAT DAY? Jesus is talking about the Day of the Lord. The wrath of God/judgement and his second coming being all tied together. Read the text carefully in context with other parallel verses in the gospels and epistles citing the same event. They are in alignment and talking about the same event. There isn't two comings.
I used to think the same thing as you. And the prayer that we be counted worthy to escape these things is to be removed off the earth before the wrath of God is poured out on the world.
The tribulation and Day of the Lord/Wrath of God/Lamb are not the same thing. We are saved from the wrath to come. God's wrath.
So Jesus is tying together the rapture/escape with his second coming and the wrath of God.
The rapture is not imminent. The early church father's like Clement and Irenaeus all wrote that the second coming was 2000 years in the future. They didn't teach a doctrine of immanency. This is a new phenomenon.
This is why Paul said "as you see THAT DAY approaching". What day? The second coming. We are not in darkness, we'll see the day coming or at least the obvious signs of it
Immanency is part of the modern day pre-trib dogma. This idea was not taught in the early church. Preachers today use it as a motivation tool because they think they have to get people saved. We can't save anyone. We are told to tell the gospel and plant the seeds of the word of God.
God, through the Holy Spirit, then draws who He will to salvation. This is very clear in scripture. The problem is, the American Evangelical movement over the last 100 years is preaching the gospel like they are trying to recruit into a multilevel marketing group. They've come up with lots of pressure tactics, tag lines, and erroneous teaching to pressure people into "coming to Jesus".
The commonality and mindset between the two is beyond obvious. We can't come to Jesus unless the father draws us to his son. That is something else taught in scripture.
I'm not against the pre-trib idea. In fact, I hope that's what happens. I don't want to go through a period of tribulation. But a careful examination of scripture shows we may be going through it, but we won't be put through the wrath of God.
I'm not looking to undermine your view, I'm trying to expand the possibilities of your understanding. Read my post again and the points I make.
Either way, He is coming!! And that's Good News.
Imminence is a made up doctrine as Michael stated. Jesus only comes as a thief to the wicked. This is reiterated in many places.
“But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.”
1 Thessalonians 5:4 ESV
“Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.”
Revelation 3:3 ESV
“Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.”
Daniel 12:10 ESV
“You hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of earth and sky, but why do you not know how to interpret the present time?”
Luke 12:56 ESV
“But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.”
Luke 12:45-46 ESV
The nobody knows the day and hour is a very literal reference with a very small window of time. Likely referring to feast of trumpets waiting on new moon to appear.
““But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning—”
Mark 13:32, 35 ESV
Notice the morning, evening, midnight reference.
Very good point. Side note, "the revised versions" ASV, RSV, ESV, NIV have substantial differences as compared to the KJV. I just replaced a NIV because of this. According to the revised versions, Elhanan slew Goliath:
2 Sam 21:19 ESV: ...Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
2 Sam 21:19 KJV: ...Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
In Matt 20:22, Mark 10:21, words of Jesus are omitted in the revised verses. There are many subtle changes that affect doctrine. Just a few of many examples are Matt 25:13, Matt 24:16, Mark 2:17.
Art Martin
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Are you looking for Him or for anti-christ? "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And THEN shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" A post trib point of view causes the believer to look for Jerusalem to be surrounded by the antichrist forces not looking to the sky for their Redemption because that belief causes one to have to first see antichrist. i will resist until i'm taken out of the way then whoever is looking for the beast can find him.
Art Martin
The sequence seems to be:
Jesus returns
Dead in Christ rise
We are caught up to Him in the air
Those who remain are destroyed.
We go to heaven for 1000 years
Earth is void during that 1000 years which is why Satan is bound- there is no one here.
At the end of the thousand years, the New Jerusalem comes down
and the wicked dead in the graves are resurrected, gathered by Satan and go to attack the city.
Wicked are cast into the lake of fire.
There are way too many scriptures to list them all that totally disproves your argument. So, I’ll only list several. These should do it.
1. Zech 14:4…2. Rev 5:10 …3.Rev 20…4. Amos 9:13…5. Micah 4:4
Paul, it seems we agree that the rapture theory is not true. What points are you disagreeing with?
The 1000 year reign is on earth. Jesus returns here to reign. The verses he’s posting are about that. The majority of collection of OT prophets is about Jesus reign on earth during the 1000 years. Jesus will return just like he left and reatablish israel. The nations that struck Israel will then serve Israel. The only way for any of that to be fulfilled is for Jesus to reign on earth.
Israel is one of many types in the OT that have a greater fulfillment. The church is antitypical Israel.
Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Galatians 3:29. if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed and heir according to the promise.
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Of course, the people of national Israel are not excluded, they are invited to grace through faith just as we all are.
Yes we are all one in Christ, but the passages being referenced have to do with geographical Israel and Jerusalem.
“Therefore comfort one another with these words.”
I Thessalonians 4:18 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/1th.4.18.NKJV
If the “saints” are the bride of Christ, and we are not destined for wrath, why would Jesus first take His bride thru the worst 7 years the earth has ever seen, before marrying His bride?
That’s like me saying to my future wife, first I’m going to put you thru the most hellish time of your life, and you probably will be killed because you said yes to marrying me, but if you make it to the end, we will tie the knot!!! So will you marry me?
Anyway, as believers, we will find out who gets to tell ya, “told you so” in Heaven…lol. Anyone who wants to stay here for the tribulation, be my guest. When that trumpet blows and Christ descends to the clouds, dead or alive, I’m out of here.
No doubt we are in the last seconds of God’s prophetic time clock. I’m looking up for Jesus Christ and not looking for the antichrist.
The beauty of the pre-trib rapture is that Jesus can come back at any moment to get His bride, and the urgency to share the gospel is paramount.
I can’t say, well once the antichrist confirms the peace covenant with Israel, then I will get really serious sharing the gospel and cleaning up my own house. I got 7 years now until Jesus comes back.
Maranatha!!! 🕊️🕊️🕊️
When has the church ever been spared suffering? The apostles were Jesus’s closest friends and had to suffer martyrdom. The church in the Middle East is as much the bride as we are. We in the western world are not so special that we should think we are the true bride that never will suffer.
“As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, ‘I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.’”
Revelation 18:7 ESV
“that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,”
Philippians 3:10 ESV
“Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world. And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.”
1 Peter 5:9-10 ESV
“For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.”
1 Peter 4:17, 19 ESV
“For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.”
1 Peter 2:21 ESV
““I have said all these things to you to keep you from falling away. They will put you out of the synagogues. Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God. And they will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me. But I have said these things to you, that when their hour comes you may remember that I told them to you. “I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you.”
John 16:1-4 ESV
““Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.”
Matthew 24:9 ESV
Individual suffering is always the same whether it’s global or isolated. If the whole world suffers or I suffer alone, it’s no different from my perspective. In fact it will be a comfort knowing we are going through this all together. This idea that Christs bride won’t suffer tribulation is another gospel. Wrath and tribulation are not the same.
Forgive me, Art, but it seems that you don't understand the difference between tribulation and wrath. One is not the other. Tribulation (pressure) is experienced by believers, individually and collectively, from the world in general and the Antichrist in particular (extra intensively). Tribulation is a refining process that God uses to purify His people, burning away the stuff in our life that isn't important. On the other hand, wrath is not a refining process, it is a destructive process. Destroying all those who oppose God and His Messiah, whether human or angelic. The believers do not have to be removed from the Earth for God to pour out His wrath ... His own are divinely protected like Noah and his family were. Noah's ark is a type of Christ, a protecting vessel. Read Psalm 91 to see this explained fully. Shalom and God bless.
Mary
For those who believe in the pretrib rapture, it seems like most if not all also believe in a 7 year tribulation. The 7 year tribulation is from an interpretation of Daniel 9 where the 70th week of Daniel is cut off from the prophecy and moved out to the future, with the first 69 weeks of that prophecy being fulfilled by the anointing of Christ at his baptism.
Daniel 9 tells us that Christ was cut off in the middle of the 70th week (sacrificed but not for himself) and that he confirmed a covenant with many for that week- a new covenant of his blood.
There are a lot of problems with the futurist view.
-Denies that Daniel Chapter 9 accurately prophesied the year of Jesus’ Crucifixion
-Says that the antichrist put an end to sacrifice when it was really Jesus that accomplished that.
-Says that the antichrist will sit in the temple of God, a physical third temple when many scriptures tell us that the church is the temple of God. T
There is no 7 year tribulation, Daniel describes a 7 year covenant, made by the Antichrist, that he breaks in the middle when he stands in the PHYSICAL 3rd temple yet to be built in Jerusalem. Those Jews who practice Judaism are ready to build it ... are you not aware of that? Because they see King Charles as their king -- and they do -- it won't be surprising to see that temple built very soon, under his reign. What makes Charles' behaviour so shocking to them is this: Judaism is looking for a Messiah who is merely a man, and is not God, so if Charles is the Antichrist and stands up in the temple built during his reign declaring himself to not only be the Messiah but also divine as God, he will be betraying the followers of Judaism and exploding onto the world scene as the Beast of Revelation with all the fallout that signifies. Shalom and may God bless you with more understanding.
I agree that the bible does not say there is a 7 year tribulation. I was pointing out what the common belief is.
If the Jews build a temple and sacrifice animals in it, that would be blasphemous against God therefore any physical temple would be disqualified as the temple "of God" :
2 Thess:2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."
The believers make up the temple of God.
1 Peter 2:5: you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
Daniel 9:27: does not refer to the antichrist. It was Jesus who confirmed the covenant of his blood at the last supper and ended the sacrificial system in the middle of the 70th week. Exactly on time.
"27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease."
The theology of a physical 3rd temple where the antichrist would break a covenant, etc. came from the Catholic church in order to counteract the widespread Protestant belief that the Papacy checks all the boxes as the antichrist.
Sits in the temple of God (the Church)
Claims to be God (Google the many quotes on this. e.g. Vicar of Christ")
Makes war with the saints (Spanish Inquisition, Waldenses, millions killed)
Came from the 4th Kingdom of Daniel (Rome)
Really, the papacy checks all the boxes.
Do not believe the misinformation from the Catholic Church but study what the Protestant Reformers believed and why. The evidence is overwhelming and undeniable.
Jesus told His disciples:
Matthew 24:15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and NEVER TO BE EQUALED AGAIN.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you AHEAD OF TIME.
He wasn't referring to 70 AD when the temple was destroyed which was a shadow of things to come. The Jews that rejected Jesus were still trying to obtain righteousness by way of Temple worship. God let the Temple be destroyed to put an end to that practice so that believing Jews would preach the Gospel to their fellow Jews and also the nations.
Jesus, in this same part of the Bible, told His disciples that not one stone would be left upon another of the contemporary Temple so His reference to the holy place can ONLY be a reference to a future PHYSICAL temple.
Are Jesus statements a "Roman Catholic plot? I notice that you never quote Matthew 24 in your diatribes. Is that because you hold preterist assumptions?
"Daniel 9:27: does not refer to the antichrist." This is the root of your misunderstanding, everything you say stems from this belief. Daniel is talking about the Beast system that would exist at the end of the age, not about the true Messiah before the end of the age.
If you are willing to listen to a pastor, teacher and accomplished Bible scholar that may present scripture in a different understanding than shared above, here’s your chance to use the discernment given to each of us by the Holy Spirit.
If you do listen to this teaching, I would be interested in your response to whatever the Holy Spirit put on your heart.
Well, it would have been interesting to here comments from anyone watched the video I shared above. Regardless, we all will find out in time who's who, where's where , wnen's when, and How's how....lol I'm trusting God with the plan of His creation and His redemption all the way to the new earth and new heaven. Today, I want to serve Him for His kingdom, and when Christ does come for His bride, be found doing His business. I am a sinner saved by grace, thru faith in Christ, who paid the price for my sins by His death on the cross, even though He was sinless and guilty of nothing. I deserved to hang on that cross. That's how far God's love was willing to save a sinner like me. That's amazing grace.....
"Access denied"