If Messiah 2030 is saying that Tishri 7, 2030 would be the time of the catching away of the bride. I'm simply pointing out that the 120th Jubilee mentioned in the presentation would be 3 days later on Yom Kippur, Tishri 10, as I understand scripture. I make no definitive statement on precise timing whatsoever at this point, which is why I wrote this post pointing out what I see to be the sign posts to the point we will know more definitively. Ultimately though the abomination of desolation will define the timing for the rest of the week.
And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth [day] of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout [all] the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family. A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather [the grapes] in it of thy vine undressed.
I am pre-wrath, but if cornered into associating the catching away of the bride as tied to the tribulation that would depend on how one defines tribulation. As I've tried to describe in my long-winded posts, apologies, I believe the dragon's wrath is the "tribulation" that will last for 3 1/2 years, or 42 months. I also believe that wrath is split into two periods of time.
Period 1: The restrainer is called to heaven to cast out the dragon at which time the revealing of the man of sin is allowed to happen. When the dragon is cast to earth, he gives his power and authority to the man of sin and as his proxy goes after Israel in Judea after declaring himself god. This is the unparalleled time that Daniel, Jeremiah and Yeshua all pointed to concerning Israel and Judea/Jerusalem. As they all agree, this time is cut short. As John sees in Revelation 12, the woman Israel is protected from the dragon for 1,260 days.
Period 2: Once Israel is protected the dragon then goes after the remnant of her seed and those holding the testimony of Christ for the remainder of his 3 1/2 years/42 months.
Given the exact day prophecies, we know that
* The end of the man of sin's power over the saints is 42 months after the abomination of desolation when Yeshua casts the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and chains the dragon for 1,000 years.
* Israel is protected from the dragon for 42 months in the wilderness
* There are 1,290 days from the abomination of desolation (my current belief is that the ambiguous end point is the end of the 70th week.)
Therefore, the abomination of desolation would have to occur 30 days (assuming 1,260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years) prior to the exact middle and the reign of the man of sin would continue for another 1,230 days until Christ returns.
Please note the dates I put here are assuming exact day framework and I can't say definitively that these prophecies are 360-day years since the majority of the associated periods of time correlate 3 1/2 years to 42 months, but only once 3 1/2 years seem to pair up with 1,260 days, and those may be two different times. (Revelation 12:6 & Revelation 12:14-16) Note the color coding on the chart. Obviously these dates are just centered around the framework and the Messiah 2030 presentations. I don't hold these dates as firm at all, I'm still thinking through all this and the implications.
So approximately 30 days after the abomination of desolation would be the sign of the sixth seal, immediately after the tribulation of those days. (Those days being the unparalleled time for Israel, Judea and Jerusalem described by Daniel, Jeremiah, and Yeshua) Note also that for the sake of the elect, those unparalleled days are cut short. We aren't told by how long, but in concert with Revelation 12 and the other exact day prophecies we can determine from scripture that it means the time of Jacob's trouble will not extend for the whole 42 months of the man of sin's reign or they would never survive. However, they must recognized Him who they pierced and respond accepting Him and calling Him their God so they must survive.
Given that definition of tribulation split into two times, I would say I hold a pre-wrath, mid-trib view or better yet a pre-wrath, post-Jacob's trouble view. To clarify why, I went through the seals and how I think they line up with the first half of the 70th week of Daniel. Both the day of the Lord and the coming of Christ happen suddenly and are tied with the signs of the sun, moon and stars.
2 Peter 3:8-10
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty. The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up, And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall, And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures. And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. And the idols he shall utterly abolish. And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array. Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness. They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks: Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded. They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief. The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man’s heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
These prophets all tie the day of the Lord to sudden destruction, people of earth hiding in the rocks and caves for fear of what's coming, the sun, moon and stars event, the Lord rising to shake terribly the earth, the resurrection of the dead, etc. Yeshua ties this time to immediately after the unparalleled tribulation of Jacob's trouble from which they are saved out of, and this period of time will end before Christ's return in glory.
In concert with John's visions in Revelation 6-8, we see that same event tied to the sixth seal, which would then have come after the time of Jacob's trouble, followed by an interesting "interlude" where we see two groups of people, 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel sealed on earth, and an innumerable multitude in heaven. This convenient interlude occurs between the sixth seal and just after the seventh seal when the angels are handed the seven trumpets. That is some of the timeline from putting the Old and New Testament prophets together based on described events.
But we also have the New Testament promises for God's people.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-5
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree [symbolic for Israel], and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
All these scriptures taken in concert with each other clarify in my mind that the man of sin is revealed, the time of Jacob's trouble in Judea lasts until God protects Israel in the wilderness for the remainder of the time until He comes to take the kingdom, but it is immediately after the time of Jacob's trouble that every eye sees him coming on the clouds of heaven with great power and glory at/after the signs of the sixth seal, about 1,230 days before He returns to take the kingdoms of the earth. It is sometime before the wrath that comes when He does, that He seals the 144,000 on earth and catches away the innumerable multitude to heaven.
Since Israel is protected for the same time the man of sin has power, yet the man of sin starts by pursecuting Israel at the abomination of desolation, and Israel is protected at the same time we see the multitudes in heaven just before the wrath of God begins, I must conclude that the catching away of the bride coincides within some short timeframe with the protection of Israel in the wilderness and their sealing as depicted in Revelation 7.
There's another promise that until recently I didn't fully understand. I did a word study trying to understand better what the "hour of temptation" meant and it was pretty interesting and may shed some light on the idea of the hour of temptation and what it means in light of all this. https://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/Articles/Watchman/HourofTemptation.html
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
I would posit that if the hour of temptation is coming on the whole world to try them that dwell on the earth and we will be kept from it, then we will not be on the earth.
Holding that all these scriptures must agree with each other, I have no other choice but to see that
1) Christ came as a child to die for our sins,
2) will come again to gather us to Him before His wrath is poured out
3) and once His wrath is completed, will return permanently to earth to rule for 1,000 years.
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Notice the bride at the marriage just verses before Christ returns to take the kingdoms and destroy the gathered armies and cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and bind the dragon. She is arrayed in fine linen, clean and white. Notice who is returning with Christ on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Regarding the first resurrection, I just yesterday came across someone with some insight that I'd never heard before and it was confirmation on my view of the first resurrection.
"the harvest in Leviticus 23 and look at the farmers harvesting, we notice that the harvest, although it is one harvest of one crop, is divided into THREE gatherings. They are (i) the firstfruits, (ii) the general harvest, and (iii) the gleanings. The firstfruits are those fruits which ripen before the others and are taken into the farmer's house for his enjoyment. The rest of the crop must have more time in the heat and dryness and are then harvested. The gleaning are left to profit the weak and underprivileged." | AdHoc (username)
1 Corinthians 15:20-23
But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
So we have (i) Christ the firstfruits, (ii) those that are Christ's at His coming (wise virgins & general harvest), and (iii) those who are killed for the witness of Yeshua and the Word of God without the mark between the catching away of the bride and Christ's return to setup the millennial kingdom. (the gleanings) These are all part of the first resurrection and the "last resurrection" will be the final one at the end of the 1,000 years of all the dead.
Similarly in scripture there are three different resurrections separated by the previous verses showing two comings of Christ at the end, one with judgment and to seal the 144,000 and catch away the bride to the marriage, and one after His wrath to take the kingdoms.
This is my take on the pre-wrath perspective, although I can't speak to what others have taught. I actually used to be pre-trib, but I started to question it and made a decision to search the scriptures myself without centering my whole belief around teachers. I laid out sticky notes on the bed trying to order Revelation and everything. I still learn from various teachers, but I've found that much of the time I gain some little insight from somewhere and as I search the scriptures there are some pieces from a lot of places that come together, but my fallback is always to what I see in scripture. I would say one teacher I feel I line up a lot with is Chris White when it comes to prophecy, he's really shifted my perspective a lot.